Why (my) Scores Matter (to me)

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Why (my) Scores Matter (to me) - 8/1/2019 5:59:59 PM

fingers

Posts: 8258
Joined: 8/26/2006
From: Santa Ana, CA
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I just summarized my tasting notes by type, rose'. I noticed that all my notes sound excruciatingly similar to each other and if not for my scores, I would have a hard time figuring out which were truly impressive to me and which were meh.

So I encourage those of you that have expressed timidity and hesitation to enter scores, do it for your own sake. I've never been criticized by another user for my amateur reviews or scores so there is little risk of being attacked :) And of course, always better to have a note along with a score so that you might end up in the Tasting Notes to Note thread. And as far as it contributing to the groupthink of CT, you're just making the world a better place.

peace out

Post #: 1

RE: Why (my) Scores Matter (to me) - 8/1/2019 6:17:23 PM

DrBad

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Totally agree! We're paying for this service and primarily, for me at least, my notes are for me. If others don't agree or criticize (no one has), who cares, right?

The statistical compilation of everyone's scores is an added benefit of the service.

Cheers

quote:

ORIGINAL: fingers

I just summarized my tasting notes by type, rose'. I noticed that all my notes sound excruciatingly similar to each other and if not for my scores, I would have a hard time figuring out which were truly impressive to me and which were meh.

So I encourage those of you that have expressed timidity and hesitation to enter scores, do it for your own sake. I've never been criticized by another user for my amateur reviews or scores so there is little risk of being attacked :) And of course, always better to have a note along with a score so that you might end up in the Tasting Notes to Note thread. And as far as it contributing to the groupthink of CT, you're just making the world a better place.

peace out

< Message edited by DrBad -- 8/1/2019 9:38:33 PM >

(in reply to fingers)

Post #: 2

RE: Why (my) Scores Matter (to me) - 8/1/2019 6:19:23 PM

Chip Merlot

Posts: 529
Joined: 10/13/2013
From: NJ
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Interesting perspective. When I look through my inventory (which is in Excel because I suck at CT) I'm often surprised to see that I drank a certain wine within the previous month or two. Maybe it's an age thing but for some of us, the more info you can record, the better.

(in reply to fingers)

Post #: 3

RE: Why (my) Scores Matter (to me) - 8/1/2019 6:53:57 PM

CranBurgundy

Posts: 8272
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From: Philly / South Joizey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fingers

I just summarized my tasting notes by type, rose'.

So I encourage those of you that have expressed timidity and hesitation to enter scores, do it for your own sake

Wait, are we talking about notes on Rosé or Sake?

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(in reply to fingers)

Post #: 4

RE: Why (my) Scores Matter (to me) - 8/1/2019 7:48:33 PM

eyewino

Posts: 370
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From: Northern Iowa
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You raise good points, Fingers.

In the last 18 months, I have posted 300 tasting notes. 254 of these have included a score. However, of the last 50 TNs, only half have a score. Have I become lazy? Or have I decided a score "cheapens" the notes/observations I have made?

I really appreciate well-written and meaningful notes more than a mere numeric designation. But I admit to glancing at the CT average score before I read through the notes of any given wine.

After probably too much thought and consternation, I resolve to assign scores to the vast majority of my notes going forward. I am sure it doesn't make me a better taster, but I understand how it adds to the CT community that I believe to be such a tremendous resource for beginners and experienced wine lovers alike.

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(in reply to CranBurgundy)

Post #: 5

RE: Why (my) Scores Matter (to me) - 8/1/2019 9:23:57 PM

BenG

Posts: 847
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From: Australian in Idaho
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CranBurgundy

quote:

ORIGINAL: fingers

I just summarized my tasting notes by type, rose'.

So I encourage those of you that have expressed timidity and hesitation to enter scores, do it for your own sake

Wait, are we talking about notes on Rosé or Sake?

I think if it's drunk for reasons other than for goodness, for heaven or for Christ, they should be scored.

(in reply to CranBurgundy)

Post #: 6

RE: Why (my) Scores Matter (to me) - 8/2/2019 4:54:17 AM

penguinoid

Posts: 1066
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From: Australia via the UK, now in Bozen-Bolzano, Italy
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I just checked, and apparently I've posted 640 tasting notes, most of which don't have scores. I've given scores to exactly eleven wines (ten now that I've corrected a mistake).

A few of these were given by accident when I was first getting used to the iOS app, and often touched the score slider bar by mistake. I just found one I'd liked but accidentally given a score of 79, which I must correct...(edit: and have corrected). Another few I gave scores to as I felt other users had scored them too harshly, and I wanted to improve the average score.

In general I don't provide scores as I don't trust my ability to score consistently, and I'd only want to provide a score if I felt it was meaningful and reliable. I am not sure that, if presented with the same wine on different occasions, I would give the same score plus/minus some reasonable error. Looking back at my notes that I have given scores to, some seem a bit odd -- either too high or too low (some of which I've now corrected). I suspect I wasn't looking at the relevant help page when I wrote them.

I am also not really sure how to calibrate my scores at a finer level: how much better exactly is a 95 point wine than a 94 point wine? Or even a 97 point wine compared with a 94 point wine? They are all 'outstanding', of course, but not exactly the same.

At a larger scale, I am aware that I haven't tasted a relatively limited number of the 'benchmark' wines, such as 1er cru classé Bordeaux, Grand Cru Burgundy, Châteauneuf du Pape, etc. Given that, I'd be reluctant to rate a wine as extraordinary (i.e., worthy of 98-100 points). Equally, though, it would be unfair to give a wine that genuinely is extraordinary a lower rating due to my lack of expertise.

Instead, I tend to rely on the "Neutral/I like it/I don't like it" option, along with my tasting note. I normally try and make it fairly clear in my note whether I like it or not, and why.

I admit I do look at scores given by others -- both other CT users and critics -- but I pay more attention to the notes than the scores.

< Message edited by penguinoid -- 8/2/2019 4:55:26 AM >

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RE: Why (my) Scores Matter (to me) - 8/2/2019 6:40:07 AM

jrockman

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I'm one of those lazy people who do not typically post tasting notes (something for me to work on

); I will say I really appreciate fingers notes - we seem to have had many common bottles as his notes have often popped up in the Community Notes on My Wines section. What I like, aside from the notes themselves, is that he uses a defined four part scoring system, I believe it is appearance, nose, taste & overall impression, and he gives the breakdown with his note so you can see how he arrived at the overall score.

(in reply to penguinoid)

Post #: 8

RE: Why (my) Scores Matter (to me) - 8/2/2019 9:01:55 AM

BobMilton

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From: Newbury Park, CA
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I agree with fingers. Every year or so I go back to my tasting notes and sort them by my score. Reminds me of wines that I really enjoyed but might have forgotten as well as those underperformers I want to avoid in the future. Don't consider myself a super scorer, but most of the time my scores are close to the average CT score, so I am OK I guess.

(in reply to jrockman)

Post #: 9

RE: Why (my) Scores Matter (to me) - 8/2/2019 9:56:02 AM

Jenise

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I relate scores to five point brackets. An 87, therefore, is Very Good better than merely Good, or average, but for one reason or another not Excellent or Outstanding. So rather than note scores, which I rarely do, I often end a TN with the word-equivalent. I generally only include a score when I think prior reviewers have been too generous or too stingy. Stingy in fact is what rankles me the most--seems like there's a collective hesitation to go near or above 95 points even when a wine is ageable, technically flawless and wow-inducing. I'm happy to deem something Excellent, therefore, without worrying about whether that's 90-excellent or 95-excellent. Not everything has to be compared to First Growth Bordeaux.

< Message edited by Jenise -- 8/2/2019 4:29:38 PM >

(in reply to BobMilton)

Post #: 10

RE: Why (my) Scores Matter (to me) - 8/2/2019 9:57:40 AM

DrBad

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One thing I’ve been doing more of is commenting on other people’s notes. I’ve had some great discussions and it seems like once a conversation gets started others are more likely to jump in too.

(in reply to BobMilton)

Post #: 11

RE: Why (my) Scores Matter (to me) - 8/2/2019 11:22:53 AM

fingers

Posts: 8258
Joined: 8/26/2006
From: Santa Ana, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jrockman

I'm one of those lazy people who do not typically post tasting notes (something for me to work on ); I will say I really appreciate fingers notes - we seem to have had many common bottles as his notes have often popped up in the Community Notes on My Wines section. What I like, aside from the notes themselves, is that he uses a defined four part scoring system, I believe it is appearance, nose, taste & overall impression, and he gives the breakdown with his note so you can see how he arrived at the overall score.

Gosh Jeff, you make me blush!

But really, thanks for the kind words. That scoring system certainly isn't my own as it is what we were taught in the WSET class I attended long ago, but it has served me well at being consistent and breaking it down by the four segments keeps me from hmm-ing and ha-ing about "is this an 89 or a 90?" If I am honest and true about my four scores, the overall score makes perfect sense to me. For anyone's reference, here's a summary of what I do:

5pts - Appearance: does it look like I think it should given the style of wine? I can forgive a little haze in my natural or unrefined wine. Not so much with a Sauv Blanc. This rating also includes my opinion of the packaging and closure. Is the cork ok? Is the bottle a ridiculous shape or size (yes, I've deducted a point for those Rotie bottles!)
15pts - Aroma. Worth 15 points on its own because it's so important.
20pts - Palate. I'll leave it at that because it deserves a whole thread discussion of its own and this is just a summary.
10pts - This is like free points to play with. What I consider here is an overall impression, but factors like age-ability (if appropo to the wine) and other intangibles like say, "Wow factor" or just sheer personal enjoyment beyond what I expected. Here I kind of think average is about 6-7, while 8+ is excellent to superb.

Note: nowhere does my system mention QPR. I think it has no place in a score but I do appreciate it if mentioned in the tasting note.

I know we needed another thread about notes and scores like we need a corked wine, but it's the dog days and it has been a bit sleepy in here. :)

(in reply to jrockman)

Post #: 12

RE: Why (my) Scores Matter (to me) - 8/2/2019 11:53:32 AM

oskiwawa

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(in reply to fingers)

Post #: 13

RE: Why (my) Scores Matter (to me) - 8/2/2019 7:13:20 PM

penguinoid

Posts: 1066
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From: Australia via the UK, now in Bozen-Bolzano, Italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fingers
That scoring system certainly isn't my own as it is what we were taught in the WSET class I attended long ago, but it has served me well at being consistent and breaking it down by the four segments keeps me from hmm-ing and ha-ing about "is this an 89 or a 90?" If I am honest and true about my four scores, the overall score makes perfect sense to me. For anyone's reference, here's a summary of what I do:

5pts - Appearance: does it look like I think it should given the style of wine? I can forgive a little haze in my natural or unrefined wine. Not so much with a Sauv Blanc. This rating also includes my opinion of the packaging and closure. Is the cork ok? Is the bottle a ridiculous shape or size (yes, I've deducted a point for those Rotie bottles!)
15pts - Aroma. Worth 15 points on its own because it's so important.
20pts - Palate. I'll leave it at that because it deserves a whole thread discussion of its own and this is just a summary.
10pts - This is like free points to play with. What I consider here is an overall impression, but factors like age-ability (if appropo to the wine) and other intangibles like say, "Wow factor" or just sheer personal enjoyment beyond what I expected. Here I kind of think average is about 6-7, while 8+ is excellent to superb.

Note: nowhere does my system mention QPR. I think it has no place in a score but I do appreciate it if mentioned in the tasting note.

Now that I think about it, I was taught a similar system during my oenology course in uni, I'd just forgotten it. I used it for that course, and I'd no doubt have to use it again if/when I get a chance to do the WSET courses (I am hoping to, but it will have to wait for now). I still had the same (mostly) the same problems: consistency of scoring, and being uncertain about the precise calibration at a smaller scale (e.g., the exact difference between 91 and 92 points). I appreciate it's a system that works well for lots of people, but I was never comfortable with it.

Then again, I used CellarTracker for years before I was confident enough to post tasting notes...

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(in reply to fingers)

Post #: 14

RE: Why (my) Scores Matter (to me) - 8/3/2019 6:58:13 AM

Chip Merlot

Posts: 529
Joined: 10/13/2013
From: NJ
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quote:

5pts - Appearance: does it look like I think it should given the style of wine? I can forgive a little haze in my natural or unrefined wine. Not so much with a Sauv Blanc. This rating also includes my opinion of the packaging and closure. Is the cork ok? Is the bottle a ridiculous shape or size (yes, I've deducted a point for those Rotie bottles!

I've seen people on this board before say they include appearance in scores, but not to this extent. Packaging and closure and bottle shape? This seems like an unfair misapplication of the appearance factor. It's certainly not part of the WSET system. That's assuming appearance of the wine itself should be factored in, which some of us don't agree with (unless there's a clear problem, e.g., debris, which would be a flaw).

Apologies in advance for any thread drift this may generate but that comment is hard to ignore.

(in reply to penguinoid)

Post #: 15

RE: Why (my) Scores Matter (to me) - 8/3/2019 7:07:37 AM

racerchris

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My scoring system starts with the Cellartracker labels - Good, Very good, Excellent, etc.
First I choose the word which describes my overall impression best, and then I decide which points score to use within the range.
For instance, if I give an 88 it means I think it is Very good but not quite good enough to call Excellent.
As far as uncertainty goes, my score is just an impression. I don't sweat it if I'm off by a point.

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(in reply to penguinoid)

Post #: 16

RE: Why (my) Scores Matter (to me) - 8/3/2019 7:36:56 AM

Paul852

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I'm with racerchris on this. And because I'm new here, I do also find myself renormalising some of my scores occasionally (which generally means moving stuff down by a point or two) to more accurately distribute a bunch of very good to excellent wines in the range 86-93.

Once one gets into this system it's tricky, because I try not to buy stuff which I would rate below 80, and unless I'm deliberately buying for a party or something I aim at 86+. And my budget is below US$100/bottle. Which means I'm trying to squeeze dozens of tasting notes into a very small range and trying to rank bottles based on samples of one with all the context of what/who I drank it with and so on.

I'm really not sure how I will scale this once I have a couple of thousand (rather than a few hundred) tasting notes. (Assuming I live long enough for that of course!)

(in reply to racerchris)

Post #: 17

RE: Why (my) Scores Matter (to me) - 8/3/2019 8:07:42 AM

fingers

Posts: 8258
Joined: 8/26/2006
From: Santa Ana, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chip Merlot

quote:

5pts - Appearance: does it look like I think it should given the style of wine? I can forgive a little haze in my natural or unrefined wine. Not so much with a Sauv Blanc. This rating also includes my opinion of the packaging and closure. Is the cork ok? Is the bottle a ridiculous shape or size (yes, I've deducted a point for those Rotie bottles!

I've seen people on this board before say they include appearance in scores, but not to this extent. Packaging and closure and bottle shape? This seems like an unfair misapplication of the appearance factor. It's certainly not part of the WSET system. That's assuming appearance of the wine itself should be factored in, which some of us don't agree with (unless there's a clear problem, e.g., debris, which would be a flaw).

Apologies in advance for any thread drift this may generate but that comment is hard to ignore.

Chip, I know it's weird but it actually was mentioned by our MS that these factors play a role, particularly closures, and that it could be referenced in the appearance score. It makes sense to me - you've got five points to play with here, why not judge things like cork quality or labeling if it has an impact on your overall enjoyment? If the bottle is an extreme shape or size that requires it to be stored in unusual fashion from other wines of its type, I have no problem taking a point off. I know that's just my quirk, not WSET

Thread drift? We ain't got no stinkin' thread drift!

Cheers
Bob

(in reply to Chip Merlot)

Post #: 18

RE: Why (my) Scores Matter (to me) - 8/5/2019 3:16:27 PM

Wine Grove

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From: San Clemente, CA
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The Scores do matter, while it's not a science on something to wholly rely on, but because this forum is a place for oenophiles to find out more about a specific vintage of a specific wine, and get other takes, and average scores. When I get wind of something I "need to try", the first thing I do is look them up on Cellartracker and see what's going on, what average scores are for the producer, then drill down into more specific bottlings and the notes, so on and so forth.

Of course the detailed notes can be even more informative, but from a snapshot perspective, it is nice to have a reliable source of data that averages real people's scores, for those same real peers/consumers can reference and use as benchmarks.

(in reply to fingers)

Post #: 19