5/18/24, 9:32 AM - I actually think this one is not quite there yet, hence why the nose wasn’t open for business (like a few other of the better 05’s I’ve tried - I had a similar issue with the Rauzan Segla but it’s coming around now). I reckon 3-5 more years and it’ll be much more expressive.
5/17/24, 1:06 AM - It’s definitely evolving - like many 05’s needs lots of air and some bottles are still a bit locked up, but I had one recently that was firing and it’s an excellent wine.My own approach to help unlock stubborn older wines is to open them, let them slow ox for a couple of hours, then decant for 3-4hrs and then drink. Could be complete nonsense of course but I find letting them wake gently before decanting makes them less grumpy 😂
5/9/24, 6:47 AM - Very helpful note thanks - curious for your views on vintages. So far I like the 2014’s for their balance and value - not too heavy and extracted like the 09’s but a bit more weight than the 07/08, 11/12’s and certainly better than 13’s. Of course 10 and 16’s are better but of all the ‘off’ vintages this seems to be to be the best, fairly consistent and very good value?
5/10/24, 1:56 AM - Thanks Motz - interesting
4/30/24, 8:21 PM - I fear you drank them all too early! Some of the 2014’s are just starting to open up (poyferre in particular, but they tend to open earlier than other estates I find) but most 2014 need more time I think.
4/29/24, 5:15 PM - Had the same experience with the Montrose a year or two back - like running into a brick wall, but I’ve also tasted out of 375 and it was glorious. Time, time and more time…..
4/25/24, 8:44 PM - You’re right about the producer - unique and very old school, made in traditional way, but quality terroir and I quite like it for that. I have tried the 2005 (which is better) and the 2010 (good) and find it has a more funky garagista type nose but then a nice complex and fresher palate. 2010’s could do with a bit more time based on the 2005’s IMO.I like this wine if only because its good quality and an enjoyable comparison to modern sleek production alternatives. Thanks for the tasting note!
4/21/24, 8:32 PM - You may have had Covid without realising it - when I first had Covid, everything tasted acidic, tinny and metalic for a while….made me worry my taste buds would never recover and my wine collection was a wasted investment!
4/21/24, 11:25 PM - Was about 2-3 weeks if I remember correctly - am back raiding the cellar again with no long term side effects thank goodness!
4/21/24, 8:33 PM - This one still needs hours in the decanter, as with a lot of 05’s
4/19/24, 10:33 PM - I agree - I had a bottle of this with a very similar experience a couple of years ago, locked down tight…..by comparison a .375 bottle I tasted at a similar time was just starting to open up with a few hours in the decanter and it was exquisite…..more patience required.
4/14/24, 8:05 AM - I’ve found similar with other ‘05’s, they’re only just coming around now (and some still need another 2-3yrs still)
4/1/24, 8:03 AM - Agree 100% on your comment. After a bit of trial and error myself, I recommend letting it breath for a couple of hours, then decanting for another 3-4 more, and it tends to settle down and open up beautifully.
3/8/24, 10:35 PM - Worth trying again in another 10yrs or so, sounds locked down tight
3/8/24, 5:16 AM - Were they bought in bond? Seriously need to look at the supplier IMO!
3/7/24, 10:49 PM - Welcome, it’s a brilliant app, I can’t recommend it highly enoughA few suggestions if using for first time- use both locations and bins for storage details if you have multiple locations it can be super useful- user scores and drinking windows are typically very accurate, but there are also a lot of experienced users here, so read the drinking notes for more helpful info on when ready to drink and also decanting suggestions- I would say average scores of below 90 are quaffers, 90-92 are very good/dinner party wines, 92-94 are special and 94+ exceptional (more reliable if > than 5-10 reviews)- the site generally has lots of detail and tasting notes for really fine wines (most on here are proper collectors), so it’s the best app for record keeping of a fine wine cellar IMO, but Vivino is often more active in tasting notes for the cheap stuff. If you can’t find tasting notes on a cheap wine here, then try there….Good luck!
2/23/24, 6:06 PM - I’ve found a few of the 05’s reticent on the nose, showing they need a bit more time. Or as Mark says a bit more air….my suggestion would be pop and slow ox for a couple of hours, then decant for another 2-4hrs as required. I tend to find that eases them awake ;)
2/21/24, 5:58 AM - I’ve just had some ‘07 and that benefits from a decent decant and probably has room to improve, so a few more years for the 2010 seems about right to me too.
2/16/24, 3:48 PM - It’s good advice - you would not be alone in not enjoying an expensive Bordeaux wine drunk too young. Good producers in a good vintage often need 20-25yrs to peak, and can often be pretty harsh or locked down before they open up again.
2/18/24, 2:00 AM - Jebs quite well know for liking punchy wines. Also apparently the French like to drink their Bordeaux young, while the English like to drink them mature. Everyone has their own taste I guess! I definitely fall in the side of preferring aged Bordeaux which are complex and smooth rather than young, robust and tannic. If you want to try something special but not overly expensive I’d recommend a 2005 langoa Barton. As another tip, try the second wines from the better estates (Croix Beaucaillou, Pagodes des Cos or Chapelle Mission Haut Brion are some of my favourites) from either 2005 or 2009/2010 as they’re made to drink a little younger.
2/14/24, 8:42 PM - I find this producer typically has some of the depth and tobacco notes of Bordeaux about it, mixed with some of the freshness/acidity and red fruited elements of a burgundy. But then I’ve often described Sangiovese in a similar manner, as a mix of these elements, so this comment makes perfect sense to me too. Tondonia in particular avoids some of overly oaky elements of some other Riojas, which is why I like it so much.
1/20/24, 5:01 PM - Just my 2c, I think this’ll only really start to peak after another 10yrs (given the 09’s are just starting to open up now)
1/17/24, 7:40 PM - I though ‘quaffer’ was perhaps a little harsh and that you much have a very high bar - but then I looked at some of your recent wines/notes and I now understand! By comparison to what you’ve been drinking recently, this is very much a quaffer 😂
1/15/24, 8:48 PM - Agree with JHH - some of the best Bordeaux wines go through a locked up phase and this is what it sounds like (based on the fact if was better after a few days). Patience may be all that’s required here and worth trying again in 2030. Thanks for the TN and reminder to hold.
1/12/24, 1:02 AM - Thanks - a great note with lots of interesting insights on drinking windows etc. I really like this producer and agree 100% with your conclusions.
1/8/24, 7:11 AM - Great commentary and an interesting read! I’ve found the 2005’s a bit hit and miss so far, but I firmly believe it’s because most are still locked down and need more time. Best I’ve had so far was a recent ‘05 Langoa Barton, and the most disappointing was a super tight Montrose - but that followed a tremendous 2005 Montrose out of half bottle a few weeks before, so I’m convinced this vintage will deliver with patience.As far as ratings go, I tend to find Neal Martin and LPB most reliable for my palate. Suckling and Jeb D are a bit all over the place imo. Thanks for the consistently interesting and excellent reviews Mark, and I agree overall the CT scores are an excellent pointer. For anything worth storing and popular enough to have a dozen reviews reviews or more, the average scores are often a better guide than many pro’s.
1/8/24, 8:11 PM - Cheers and HNY to you too! I have a few of the Poyferre so will have to try one soon.
12/26/23, 3:44 PM - Definitely feel it’s a step up vs the NV, but agree not worth that price. I managed to get some a couple of years back at around GBP45 in bond which I felt was very reasonable. In the GBP100 price bracket you get a lot more competition!
12/26/23, 3:31 PM - Agree 100% - nice juicy dark blackcurrant flavours with a graphite tinge. I found it faded a bit after a few hours though, so only a short decant and probably best to drink up in next couple of years.
12/26/23, 3:27 PM - Great note - I really liked the 2004 too, and agree that while not a powerhouse from a top vintage, it was an elegant, complex and perfectly enjoyable bottle of very good quality claret.
12/6/23, 12:33 AM - Agree on the Sous Bois - a lovely champagne, especially good with food.
11/27/23, 11:06 PM - Sounds flawed - better to label it as such than score it a 50 IMO, a Musar should not be undrinkable even this young.
11/27/23, 11:04 PM - Agree - the Croix Beaucaillou, the Pagodes des Cos and the Chapelle Mission HB are probably my three favourite second wines for price/quality ratio, and they they don’t tend to have the sharp drop off in quality or slightly diluted thing going on that some other estates second wines can suffer from.
11/14/23, 2:57 AM - Agree with this - young Bordeaux from the better estates are fickle when drunk young. Sometimes intense and youthful, and other times locked tight and giving nothing away.I’m not planning to touch these until at least 2030 or preferably even 2035, but thanks for the tasting note and confirming this for me.
10/27/23, 11:02 PM - Echo that - I like South African wines a lot but only few can compete with the very best in the world. This one can!
10/4/23, 6:47 AM - Great review - it’s such a unique expressions, I would never pick this as an Aussie Shiraz blind. Layered and complex, floral and refined.
9/19/23, 5:54 AM - Wonder if it was flawed given your comments? I have some of these and with a couple of hours of air are still going really strong?
9/19/23, 6:49 AM - Thanks for the honest feedback - although I’d suggest perhaps trying another one in 3-5yrs time before making a final call on this producer ;)
9/20/23, 12:20 AM - Will try to do so in the coming week or two.
8/21/23, 5:35 PM - These 06’s seem very slow to come around - do you feel there’s enough stuffing there to outlast the time it will take for them to open up?
8/4/23, 1:54 PM - I don’t think many of the 2010s are in the zone yet, I had this down to only start drinking from 2025. I’m guessing it’s not yet at peak based on your comments and my experience with other 2010’s?
7/12/23, 8:54 AM - The 03’s are only just ready for drinking, hopefully this is just a stage and it comes around!
6/25/23, 5:34 AM - Quite a few of the better 05's seem to need more time - thanks for the update.
6/24/23, 9:15 PM - I’d agree - had this recently and it is fine from opening but just kept improving so I’d recommend at least 1, but can easily take 2-3.
6/24/23, 9:07 PM - Agree - I’ve had a sour mess with this wine before, but only on opening. Given it a few hours and it balances out and is a very nice wine in my experience. Long decant or hold.
6/20/23, 7:17 AM - Definitely sounds flawed - the last one I had of these was still fresh and this sounds oxidized?
5/30/23, 6:42 PM - Great note - thank you!
5/28/23, 7:29 PM - Thanks for the note - I expect will need more time as you suggest
5/21/23, 6:38 AM - Don’t forget this is only the second wine of a super second - there’s still quite a big gap to the Grand Vin.I find most super seconds second wines only stack up to being about the quality of about a decent 4/5th growth or a top cru borgeous, but they can have the benefit of consistency (thanks to terroir/winemaking skills) and also give you a good view on house style.
5/21/23, 7:51 AM - My mistake - I thought I’d added the Reserve Comtesse to my reserves but made an error and added the GV 🤦♂️
5/12/23, 11:46 PM - These top vintages are taking a frustratingly long time but are so worth it. Tried the ‘05 out of 375ml and it was young but awesome, but out of 750ml it was like running into a brick wall 😂. The 04’s are currently very nice though. Worth giving one a try.
4/24/23, 5:30 PM - Thanks for the TN - curious on your comment re cork. Is it because you prefer DIAM for some reason (longevity etc?)
4/24/23, 10:26 PM - Thanks for the detailed response, very helpful context for me to consider!
4/24/23, 6:16 AM - Sounds like it’s still a surly teenager! Hopefull comes around in a few more years.
4/8/23, 5:20 AM - Thanks for the TN!I felt much the same about BdB until I cellared them for a few years. Might be worth a try if you haven’t already.
4/5/23, 10:00 PM - It’s interesting point on timing/windows. I tried a 2005 montrose recently and it was so locked tight it was like running into a brick wall. Out of 375mln though it was sublime. Definitely better to try a vintage like 2016 after 20+yrs once opens up properly, even 2005’s are hit and miss among the second growths IMO and the 1996’s are the ones to be drinking window.
4/6/23, 7:30 AM - A fair point Mark - a 05's Langoa Barton I had recently was excellent and perfectly on form. I also turn to CellarTracker notes all the time for this reason.
4/1/23, 10:54 PM - I agree - I also struggle a little with the comments/scoring on here. The bottle I tried had beautiful pure red fruits with an intensity that was befitting at least a mid 90's score. Perhaps it is just a bit young and so inconsistent, and just needs to time come around?
4/1/23, 12:36 AM - Agree this sounds flawed - the last bottle I had was barely showing any age at all.
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