4/15/24, 8:04 PM - Amen. I bought a whole case of this based on WS’s rating/description. To say I regret it would be a massive understatement. Thanks for sharing your similar experience.
2/19/24, 4:15 PM - Sorry to read that you did not like this. I hope my review didn't influence your decision to buy. I'm also somewhat impacted by the fact that you are a fellow Minnesotan; I spent my first 21 years there, in Austin, Waterville, Rochester, and Minneapolis. How about you? I guess the good news is the price didn't break the bank, if you were relying on my note. Cheers, and good drinking!
2/25/24, 4:35 PM - I've found a lot of the wines from Southern Burgundy (the Macon, esp. St. Verain) scratch my itch for good Chardonnay that doesn't break the bank. Still, I long for the days when you could buy 1er cru Burgs for $25-$35 or so, but that was many years ago (probably around 1988-1990; I left MN '82 and got to CA just in time for the golden age for both CA and French wines).
2/25/24, 4:29 PM - Overpriced? How much are you paying in the Netherlands? In the U.S. (California) it is about $25, and I'd consider that a bargain for a 93-point wine. Not sure what the ROE is, but probably around 28 euros at the most.
2/14/24, 8:27 PM - I would strongly recommend trying one now. Even a 750 ml. bottle is tasting great right now, though no sign of any imminent decline. Cheers!
2/5/24, 11:55 AM - Hi WineGuy. I lived in SD for 14 years until '19. Still buy wines from Wine Exchange. It gives me an excuse to drive down to SD because I still have a wine stash down there in storage. Cheers.
1/3/24, 2:59 PM - Hi VC; thanks for your comment. Wish I had bought more. Cheers!
12/19/23, 9:07 PM - Always nice to discover something new, good, and reasonably priced. I have had other vintages of this (2015 and another I believe), but this has been my fave.
12/20/23, 8:38 PM - Always nice to discover something new, good, and reasonably priced. I have had other vintages of this (2015 and another I believe), but this has been my fave.
12/19/23, 9:03 PM - And I've read and enjoyed a few of your notes, too, wineotim. Turnabout is fair play, eh?
11/21/23, 5:58 PM - Amen. This country is all about greed. Charging more for Johnny Come Lately wines (some with no track record at all) than the long-established stars from Europe. Have you been to Napa lately? Nowadays it seems to cater only to those deep-pocketed individuals who can afford rooms at $300+ per night and $200 per plate dinners. Thank God I got to experience it in the good old days, starting in the late 80s. I keep wondering, where does it all end?
11/21/23, 8:58 PM - Wow, I really loved your response. I am retiring in January and thinking strongly about moving to Portugal or Spain permanently; I have friends who have previously done so and love it. What is going on in this country reminds me of the fall of the Roman empire--only many more centuries earlier.
11/19/23, 3:43 PM - jviz: Good eye. Duly noted and corrected. I meant to say palate.
11/19/23, 3:55 PM - As you say, no worries!
11/4/23, 4:48 PM - Thanks for the feedback, Portland. Just another reason why I love this site; a great community. I've always thought the world would be a kinder, gentler place if everyone drank wine.
11/5/23, 11:48 PM - I’ve reached retirement age so I’m not assuming I wii necessarily be around when some of my greatest wines will be at their apogee. So sadly I will be drinking some in their early drinking windows. Wish I could go back and do it all over again..
9/28/23, 4:33 PM - Hi: I've had a so-so experience with this wine as well, and the '13 vintage too. Too frequently fails to live up to its high scores from the wine press. Some of the '13s have been very good though, so I just chalked it up to bottle variation. For the money though, it is disappointing. Chin up.
9/4/23, 11:10 PM - I wouldn’t recommend against. It is wallet friendly for the quality.
6/5/22, 7:16 PM - BenSteven, I never made the connection til you pointed it out! Just an update for you, I'm tasting the same bottle today and it has abated just a bit, but is still there. I think you are right to wait, since it definitely is drinking like a youngster. Thanks for the post.
9/2/23, 12:48 AM - Greetings! I agree with you. I should have known better. This wine is like their neighbors, Ridge Monte Bello. Built to last and once they do, they are fabulous. Unfortunately, I'm at an age where I fear my wines will outlive me. The goal now is more modest: get to at least the beginning of the drinking window, then decant the hell out of the bottle. As an aside, the Chardonnay and Pinot Noir from Mount Eden are long lived as well, but don't take nearly as long to be approachable. I've got a 2013 PN I am going to open in the next year. Happy drinking!
3/10/23, 5:24 PM - Hasta be. First bottle was a 98 and inspired me to stock up; I bought 7 in all. None measured up to the first, most were very good, but a couple were disappointing given my expectations.
9/2/23, 12:38 AM - Skotto: I've had some great bottles of this (98 pts.) and some real disappointing ones (85 pts.) where the wine just did not live up to its lofty reputation (I've seen it described as the Lafite Rothschild of Italy). Hopefully you have at least a few good bottles in your case. Certainly it should last a long time if stored properly. If you do try another bottle in the near future and have the same experience, let the bottle sit overnight in the cellar and see if that makes a difference when you taste it the next day. Good luck!
8/13/23, 7:11 PM - D_RICH, I did not. As a general manner, I don't decant but tend to try a glass and then let the remainder of the wine in the bottle w/ cork inserted slow ox over the next 24 hours or more in the cellar. Unless, of course, the wine is so amazing at first sip that I see no point in waiting. Cheers!
8/10/23, 7:47 PM - Hi there. It never ceases to amaze me how different bottles of the same wine can show so differently. Happens to me more often than I'd like. But that doesn't stop me from drinking it. I have a daughter born in '89. Sadly, she is not into wine......
8/11/23, 9:00 PM - My son is '92 and he loves wine, too, but boy was it tough to find good birthyear wines for him. The best were some of the '92 Napa cabs (La Jota 11th Anniversary was stellar), but let me tell you, the pickings were slim. I was '59, and I was lucky enough to have a bunch when I was younger (including my favorite, Lafite) but they are out of my monetary reach nowadays. My wife was born in '55, and we have had some good '55s for sure.
8/3/23, 3:13 PM - Thanks for your note. I too got the wine directly from the winery. i've had two bottles of this that were much better, with an average score of 92. And the community avg. is 94.2. Interestingly I had the '19 Exzellenz last night and it was only OK--90 points. So I am baffled.
7/27/23, 8:48 PM - Agelvis and sfwl: I think you are both right, especially after tasting this again tonight after it sat open for 20 hours. This is absurdly young, and I know the drinking window is not likely open for another three years per CT. I just wanted to try it for the first time since I recently bought two more bottles. Thanks for the comments. Cheers!
7/16/23, 2:26 AM - Nice to make your acquaintance, even if it is virtual. I agree with you. There is so much good wine out there, you can almost wait until a great deal comes along for some of it, so long as you don't absolutely have to own certain bottles or producers. And with the benefit of time and the existence of Cellar Tracker, you get the opinion of people who drink the wines after they are released. After all, even pro wine critics are not infallible, especially since they often don't even taste the final blend. Thanks for your comment. BTW, has Costco made any inroads in Europe yet? I have been thinking about moving out of my increasingly crazy country but it would help to know that companies like Costco are operating in the EU.
7/16/23, 7:50 PM - I am finding that a number of the 2019s are drinking pretty well already, especially if you have a glass and then stick the opened bottle back in the cellar for tasting the next day. I just compared the '16 and '19 Giscours and the '19 was much more approachable. I have already drunk three of the '19 Giscours and it is the best vintage of this wine I can ever remember drinking. Cheers!
7/10/23, 10:04 PM - Thanks for the tip!
6/29/23, 8:18 PM - What is a palatologist?
6/29/23, 8:34 PM - You must be a young pup. The naïveté of your remarks is astounding. But you'll learn.
6/30/23, 2:05 PM - Wow.... Just ..... Wow. Are you The Donald masquerading as some kind of wine expert? With your VAST experience? We all should accept your "wisdom" because you decree it? I've probably been tasting the best wines in the world for longer than you've been alive, so I think I might know a thing or two more than you. Try reading some of Jeff Leve's 24,000+ notes (including a couple about this wine) and learn something. And by the way, Costco is the largest wine retailer by far in all of the U.S. Their tasting staff finds wines that punch above their weight, and they also sell 1st growths. But fine. No telling DT anything, I suppose.
6/30/23, 7:01 PM - Incredible. Your p**** must be incredibly small.
6/25/23, 5:39 PM - davidandrose: Thanks for the comment. This was new to me as well; I hope you like it as much as I did. Apparently it is one of the very few Bordeaux that use all of the grape varieties permissible in Bordeaux rouge. I hadn't realized that Carmenere was one of those grapes until I bought this. I guess you learn something new every day. Cheers and good drinking!
6/14/23, 10:56 PM - I hope you get the opportunity to taste what I tasted soon. Cheers, and good drinking.
5/29/23, 7:14 PM - dj, I think you are right; it was something less than I expected, and I have had better experiences with this wine. g-man, say your kid comes home from school with a "B" grade. You wish they had gotten an A, so you don't love it, but it's not a C, D or F. So you probably "like" it. That's what 84 is to me, a solid B.
5/26/23, 6:02 PM - PT, I don't wanna let you down, but that is an old note from 1990 I was transcribing so I can have all my notes online. Still, at least 24 years ago, this appeared to have the stuff to age. Others' more recent notes appear to show that you may be in for a very good experience though. One person had a 375 ml. bottle recently and gave 92. Paulst must have a lot of it; he seems to really like it!
5/27/23, 3:31 PM - Clearly you have a good head on your shoulders, PT. I sure do want to see what you think when you finally do taste it. Happy Holiday W.E.
5/20/23, 12:42 AM - Mark, another bottle we agree on! As I looked through the notes and then came upon yours, I kept thinking, why is this wine not so much better known???? What a beauty, and underpriced for what you get in the bottle. WOW.
5/20/23, 6:59 PM - Hall winery just asked me to take a survey b/c I'm a club member. They asked what they could do differently. I told them they could quit raising prices b/c there is a limit to what people can afford, and the limit has been reached and passed. Pretty soon the wine business is gonna be just like pro sports. Only the very wealthy can afford to attend or truly enjoy. Prices for many wines have increased by a factor of 10 or more 35 years; I don't think inflation has been anywhere near that rate. I know my income hasn't increased ten-fold.
5/20/23, 7:54 PM - Man do I hear you! I was in Monterey 10 days ago. I paid $9.50 for a bottle of Perrier. A cup of soup was $14. $16.50 for a Caesar salad with no protein added like chicken or shrimp. Pasta dishes with no protein were $30+. Dishes like paella $50. I'm seriously thinking about moving to Portugal; prices are about 1/2 what they are here, and you don't have to worry about getting shot at the grocery store.
5/20/23, 10:01 PM - Honestly Mark, I don't see it that way at all. What I see is greedy business owners like the Hotel that charged me nearly $300 for a room in San Diego a week ago that was barely Motel 6 quality, even though they admitted they were at less than 50% occupancy. And that was a BARGAIN compared to alternatives. My economics classes taught that where demand is insufficient, prices are supposed to come down to meet demand, i.e. demand and supply should "meet." This country has not operated on Milton Friedman/Adam Smith principles for a LONG, LONG time, and it's a damn shame. Methinks someone is gaming the system, and it sure ain't poor bastards like you and me.
4/30/23, 10:13 PM - Hi J.S., I got this at Costco's in Sacramento and Woodland, CA
10/31/22, 1:25 PM - Just took your advice and bought both! I drank 9 bottles of the '09 and rated at least one of those a 96, so thanks for reminding me of this fine producer. I value your opinions, as I do those of Motz and Purple Tooth.
4/27/23, 5:30 PM - Juliansi, I only wrote one note but I consumed at least four or five bottles of this. I don't think I decanted any of them, but it certainly couldn't hurt to give it at least a couple hours in the decanter. It is always so hard to tell. So many wines are great right out of the gate, then they shut down and don't emerge for years. I would hedge your bets and buy two more bottles, open one, and that might give you an idea what to do with your other bottles in terms of aging.
4/27/23, 5:20 PM - My pleasure, glad you liked it! There is nothing I hate more than opening a wine too soon or too late.
4/10/23, 1:15 AM - Good to know for future bottles. Do you find this true of all vintages of SH cab?
4/10/23, 5:35 PM - You know, that is what my expectation would have been. CT's drinking window doesn't reflect that type of wine, and I always wondered why. Now I know it's just inaccurate! Thanks, cuz I have quite a few more vintages of the SH cab, having been a member until the winery was sold. I still have a handwritten note from SH matriarch Eleanor McCrea. And having had many older Formans, Dunns, Mayacamas, etc., I can see I have much to look forward to. Cheers to you sir!
3/24/23, 7:23 PM - Hi PT: I agree with you about bottle variation: it is a real thing. And I have to say that this wine is a go-to for me in reasonably priced Bordeaux; it rarely if ever disappoints, and often soars. And I do the same with my purchases. I remember going out and buying more '09 of this wine after tasting the only bottle of Latour-Martillac I had ever owned up to that point. Cheers, and cont'd great drinking.
3/24/23, 7:24 PM - EA: Looks like you, me and Purple Tooth are all on the same page about this wine. Great minds/palates think alike?
3/25/23, 7:06 PM - What the Hell, I'll pour more gasoline on the fire. I see no note from either of you on the '16 Meyney. You need to try it, it is the best I have tasted from this producer, is in our price wheelhouse, and, somehow, is still available. You can drink it now, but it will only get better and better. Four tastes, two 93 ratings and two 95s, over the past three years, consistently good. Sorry EA, I don't mean to drain your bank account.....
3/20/23, 8:03 PM - Glad to know I'm not the only one. Sometimes when I score a wine high and others don't I wonder whether I'm crazy or something. This producer's entire range of wines are generally usually impressive, especially the Gigondas bottlings. They are more expensive, but good values too given the high quality. Thanks for the comment!
3/17/23, 7:06 PM - Hey, EA, thanks for the comment. I have had some pretty nice wines from Fronsac, at least in recent vintages like '18 and '19. And the value is off the charts. Wishing you Good Drinking always.
3/10/23, 5:22 PM - Agreed. Your review was one big reason I decided to open this. Without it and similar reviews, I never would have cracked this since I only bought two bottles!
3/10/23, 6:08 PM - Back at ya. You know your stuff! (My only bad memory of this wine was when I served it to my best buddy [can't remember what vintage, only that it was early 2000s] and he went, "Brett! I can't get past the Brett!" I could see where he was coming from after he mentioned it, but I'm not that sensitive to it, and I have never had an issue with this wine since. I do like this producer a lot. Not easy to find a great St. Julien at St. Emlion prices.)
3/10/23, 6:31 PM - I distinctly remember that bottle was a pop and pour.....
3/10/23, 7:43 PM - That's my preference if I have a chance. Unfortunately, my best buddy is a Cali fan who has little patience for decanting. My memory which admittedly is vague seems to recall opening and drinking this in a parking lot somewhere. Didn't really give the wine its due. My best guess it was a 2000. Go figure.
3/6/23, 7:20 PM - Oechsle: Thanks for the comment. Wine really does evolve and change over time, eh? Almost like the toy in a box of Cracker Jacks: you're never exactly sure what you are gonna get (though some seem more consistent than others).
3/6/23, 7:15 PM - Hello, Hu. It's the old Robert Parker 100-point scale. It starts at 50 for the worst wine in the world. Then the numbers you add are appearance (up to 5 points possible for the best); nose (maximum of 15 possible points); taste (up to 20 points possible), and overall assessment (up to ten points). So for the Sansonnet, it was 50+5/5+12/15+16/20+9/10=92/100.
2/27/23, 10:13 PM - I'm gonna add a comment to my own note. I read others' notes on this after I made mine, and one thing that resonated with me were comments on acidity. This wine has it, and I think that may be key to explaining why a very ripe, tannic wine could be so enjoyable and doesn't crash and burn while others with such qualities (minus the acidity) might.
2/19/23, 5:22 PM - Hey, PT, you seem to really have cornered the market on this producer. Isn't it great that there are some folks out there who don't just follow the herd and do what all other Chateaux do? Nice way to get yourself a competitive advantage over the other guys, especially if you don't own the most hallowed vineyards. I liked the first bottle, but the second seemed almost incredible.
2/19/23, 11:38 PM - When a guy's moniker is this: "Don't be a snob! Just shut up and drink." I would have the same hope. If you happen to be anywhere around Sacramento, CA at any time, don't hesitate to look me up.
2/19/23, 5:18 PM - Mark: Hope the finished note helps. I wouldn't exactly have called it drinkable last night, but at least it showed signs of what it could be. On first taste today, I was afraid the air hadn't done much, seemed overly acidified and angular, but as it sat in the glass it smoothed out very well. I'd say this is gonna live a long time. Cheers, and good drinking!
2/17/23, 7:46 PM - RC it's not too late, you'll just pay (significantly) more. I think we have all had regrets about not getting enough of certain things, but there's always tomorrow....
2/15/23, 12:34 PM - I have tasted a number of wines rated 95 by Decanter. None of them, and I mean none of them, were anywhere near 95 point Wines. I don’t even pay attention to their ratings anymore. These wineries must pay good money to that magazine.
10/23/22, 5:32 PM - PT, I have read more than a few of your notes too, and I respect your opinion a lot. Thanks for the comment and compliment!
10/30/22, 3:32 PM - Leognan, thanks for the heads-up!
2/7/23, 6:42 PM - Don't mention it, PT. I suffer from the same affliction. Pretty sure it cost me wife number 1, wouldn't be surprised if wife number 2 becomes a casualty as well.
2/4/23, 1:26 PM - The bane of mortality, my friend. Thanks for the comment!
2/3/23, 3:48 PM - Fig, glad you enjoyed it!
1/31/23, 6:03 PM - PT, thanks for the comment! So informative. I wondered how a 2001 could have a cork like that. Now I know! I envy you the '89, it was my daughter's birth year. I drank an '89 Lynch-Bages recently that was PERFECT.
1/11/23, 5:46 PM - If you are honest, that sort of thing happens. Didn't remember liking previous bottles quite as much, but rated it as I saw it at the time. I don't look at previous notes to "guide" current notes. Either my memory of previous bottles was faulty, or my tasting faculties were not quite as good at one time as another. It happens. This is not science. But thanks for writing.
1/11/23, 5:54 PM - Just had another thought. I looked back just now and see that I have consumed nearly a case of this wine. I don't write notes every single time I have a wine. (Otherwise I would probably have about five times as many notes.) Nothing irks me more than one person writing 10 notes three months apart, b/c it skews overall ratings in the direction of that one taster. For that reason, I often skip rating a wine if I treat it more like a daily drinker, which I did with this wine. The bottle I rated most recently was the last bottle I had of this wine. I WISH wines were more consistent. Right now I am consuming a 2016 Guigal Ch. de Nalys CdP. First bottle or two were stellar. The next two bottles seemed "dumb." The bottle tonight is back to showing spectacular. Maybe that is why we love wine so much....always pursuing perfection, but too often not getting it. For all the golfers out there, y'all understand.
1/13/23, 1:07 AM - You and I will just have to disagree on that point, my friend. But maybe there is a compromise. Instead of giving the same numerical rating each time, simply write a note that says what you experienced each time (so multiple notes), but no numerical score, instead just the notation that your tasting confirms your previous score. Where it does not confirm your previous score, OK to put a different numerical score. That would solve my problem where I see 10 notes on a wine with an average of ninety, but seven come from one person. IF we assume equal tasting abilities for all four scorers, that one person's opinion is going to overwhelm the opinion of the other three and make the wine appear "better" than it is (again, assuming all four tasters are equally good tasters), unless you assume that the person giving 7 90-point scores is a better taster. That may well be the case, but on average, I prefer to see each taster's opinion be given equal, or near equal, weight.
1/13/23, 5:30 PM - Obviously, you are entitled to your opinion, but what you said completely ignores what I wrote in my comment. I specifically said that if you have a different numerical rating on the wine you should provide that. So if you have scores that are 4-5 points different all would show up as numerical ratings. I really am amazed that you don't see how one person's numerical score repeated seven times could skew the overall rating of a wine towards the opinion of that one taster. It is simple math. What you are actually suggesting is that because someone tastes a given wine more often, that someone's opinion more accurately captures the quality of the wine, in numerical terms. Frankly, I'd be shocked if anyone on this site actually shares that view. But I am open to being persuaded otherwise. So I'd love to open this up to others who have an opinion on the subject who might run across our differing opinions. What say you?
1/14/23, 12:46 AM - Okay, I'll rise to the challenge. As a matter of fact, in college I was a teaching assistant in quantitative analysis. Your own statements prove the fallacy of your arguments. You make a completely unfounded assumption about the motives/desires of the man who founded this site, when there is absolutely nothing to suggest that the founder ever even considered the issue of multiple/single reviews. Second, you suggest that someone "cares" more about a wine simply because they bought more than one bottle of a certain wine or tasted it more than one time. Are you really that stupid? Does it not occur to you that one taster may have the means to buy a case of wine while another can maybe afford at most one or two bottles? Apparently not, because you then conclude that the person who likes a give wine more or who can afford more of that wine should have their opinion count more than someone without the same financial means. Third, have you forgotten that this whole conversation started when you criticized me b/c I rated a wine one point lower than my previous rating, and then turned around and said that you sometimes find that the same wine has varied by as much as 4-5 points in your own multiple tastings? Finally, you F*ing moron, I have a genius IQ and went to Stanford Law School, so don't try to pull the "I'm better educated than you are" card on me. You have made some of the dumbest arguments in this whole dialog I have ever heard. So fuck off, asshole.
1/14/23, 4:17 PM - It's true. You really can't fix stupid. Answer me this: Why in statistical analysis is it important to have random sampling? Answer: To make sure your analysis is unbiased. Why do you need a minimum number of participants in a study to produce a statistically significant conclusion? Answer: Because a small sample size (e.g., ten tasters out of hundreds of thousands) would produce skewed results, and be of no statistical significance. So fine. If you want to embrace the fallacy of arguing that ten tasting results by four tasters will be as good, ON AVERAGE, of reflecting the actual quality of a wine as ten tasting results by ten different people, go right ahead. Obviously, logical reasoning is out of your depth.
1/15/23, 3:26 PM - Are Germans always this rigid in their thinking? Oh....wait. Excuse me. My bad. I forgot.
1/13/23, 12:54 AM - Thank you kindly, Vialalto, I shall take your advice, which I greatly appreciate!
12/13/22, 4:45 PM - I honestly don't recall the wine being overly sweet, otherwise I think I would have noted it. HOWEVER, I think there are better choices out there for the money; not a fan of the reviewer you mentioned, to me they always overrate, sometimes by five or more points. I think they have sold out (Dunnuck and the other former WS review whose name isn't coming to mind). That said, I tend to like the Frenchies better, so the fact I didn't call it Cali or New World suggests I didn't think it was sweet. Cheers!
12/14/22, 12:41 AM - Handy1, since Parker has retired, generally rely on Neal Martin, Antoinio Galloni (spelling?), Stephen Tanzer (all who apparently write for Vinous), plus sometime Jancis Robinson and ALWAYS my fellow tasters on CT. What a great wine community!
11/29/22, 6:21 PM - Thanks for the comments guys. And thanks for the recommendation Mr. DelMar.
Thanks for letting us know about this problem. We will review your comments and be in touch soon with an update.
Search